The Lagoon TechMy little blog in Cyberspace.

Please note that I mean no disrespect to the original author in my replies or in any other way.

This response is directed toward the section entitled “There Are Major Theological and Scientific Problems With A Young Earth” on the website: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/ken_ham.htm

Please note my responses are in a Indigo color and Bible verses I post are in black with bold.

1. If there was no prehistoric world, then how did the earth end up void and darkened. The Bible says that God’s Word NEVER returns unto Him void? Isaiah 55:11, “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” God made man upright. God made the angels and Lucifer upright. Sin ruined them. Throughout Genesis 1 we read repeatedly that everything God made was “very good.” So why would God make a void and empty frozen wasteland? Clearly something happened. Jeremiah 4:23-28 tells us that God in His anger made the earth void.

The word “void” in Isaiah 55:11, the “void” used in Genesis (at the beginning of creation), and the “void” used in Jeremiah 4:23-28 are not talking about the same things.

The word “void” in Isaiah 55:11 means something like “useless” or “fruitless”.

The “void” at the beginning of Genesis means that nothing else existed on earth except the “surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters”.

The “void” in Jeremiah 4:23-28 (Jeremiah 4:5-28) is talking about Jerusalem going to be void (empty) because of God’s punishment. Nothing to do with the Genesis account.

Please remember that a single word in the Bible can have multiple meanings (also depends upon the context of the verses as well).

2. The Bible mentions over 200 different animals and yet not one mention is made of any of the hundreds of prehistoric species in museums today. Surely if sabertooths, mammoths, dinosaurs (tyrannosauruses, brontosauruses, stegosaurus, et cetera), pterodactyls and hundreds of other prehistoric and terrifying creatures had lived amongst men, they would have been mentioned in the Bible. Clearly these creatures lived in a time before time.

Just because the Bible may or may not mention certain animals specifically, does not mean that they never lived with humans.

3. The Bible says that Adam named all the animals (Genesis 2:19), but modern scientists have named 1047 different species of dinosaurs as of September 17, 2008. Adam couldn’t name the dinosaurs (a term that didn’t exist until the 19th century) because they were not there, that is, dinosaurs weren’t a part of the remodeling of God’s creation. You can trace the name of every animal and bird back through history, but dinosaurs you cannot.

Animals would have changed over time. I do not mean like a dog turning into a cat. I mean that one type of dog would eventually bring forth several different types of dogs (like we have today; e.g. breeds of dogs, cats, horses, etc.).

Adam named all of the animals (and their types) that were alive at that time. However, as years went on, different types of dogs, cats, horses, bats, etc. breeds came about.

4. Where did Satan come from? Clearly he was already in the Garden of Eden, so he existed before man.

God created Satan. However, we do not know if Satan was really in the Garden of Eden when God first created it, because the Bible, as far as I know, does not tell us (of course, Satan was in the garden later on).

5. When did the angels fall? There is no Biblical record of the angels falling during Old Testament times, so clearly they must have been cast down to earth for their rebellion BEFORE Genesis 1:2.

How can you be sure that Satan and the demons were cast down from Heaven before Genesis 1:2? Just because Satan fell before the Old Testament times, does not mean Satan fell from Heaven before Genesis 1:2. Satan could have made his mistake right after Creation for all we know.

By the way, Satan can still go to and from Heaven (Job 1:6), until Jesus kicks him out of Heaven permanently later on in the future (Revelation 12:7-12).

6. When did God cast angels into Hell? 2nd Peter 2:4 says that God cast some of the angels that sinned down to Hell (Tartarus, only mentioned once in the New Testament, a special place in Hell just for demons). The logical conclusion is that God cast the angels down BEFORE Genesis 1:2.

2 Peter 2:4 does not hint to Satan and his demons’ having fallen before Genesis 1:2. This verse is just saying that God cast some demons in Hell ahead of time.

7. In view of Jeremiah 4:23-28, when did God in His fury destroy the cities of the earth? The Bible tells us, that is, after Genesis 1:1 but before Genesis 1:2.

The Bible does not say that God destroyed the cities of the earth between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

“²⁰ I see the enemy defeating us
time after time,
    leaving everything in ruins.
Even my own home
    is destroyed in a moment.
²¹ How long will I see enemy flags
    and hear their trumpets?

²² I heard the Lord say,
    “My people ignore me.
They are foolish children
who do not understand
    that they will be punished.
All they know is how to sin.”

²³ After this, I looked around.
The earth was barren,
    with no form of life.
The sun, moon, and stars
    had disappeared.
²⁴ The mountains were shaking;
²⁵ no people could be seen,
    and all the birds
    had flown away.
²⁶ Farmland had become a desert,
    and towns were in ruins.
The Lord’s fierce anger
    had done all of this.” – Jeremiah 4:20-28 CEV

Jeremiah 4:20-28 is not talking about God destroying the cities of the earth before Genesis 1:2.

8. In view of Jeremiah 4:23-28, when did God make the earth dark without light to shine? Again, the Bible tells us, that is, after Genesis 1:1 but before Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:1 is just saying that God created the heavens and the earth. Nothing else.

9. In view of Jeremiah 4:23-28, when was there NO MAN? Clearly this passage of Scripture refers to a time before mankind existed. Although some scholars would argue that this passage doesn’t specifically say it refers to creation, I think it would be irresponsible to ignore Jeremiah 4:23 and 26, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. … I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.” There is no other way to conclude this passage, except as concerning the origins of the world. At no time in history has it been dark upon the earth as Jeremiah 4:23-28 says, except between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

If you read these verses in context (Jeremiah 4:1-31  [not just verses 23 and 26 by themselves]), these verses are a part of a revelation that Jeremiah had (from God) about an upcoming punishment. This has nothing to do between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

Please remember to always try to understand the context of verses in the Bible, otherwise you will end up twisting scripture and mislead others.

10. In Genesis chapter 1, why does the Bible make a distinction between the word “create” (meaning absolute creation) and the word “made” (which means “to make” in the broadest sense of the word)? Clearly something different was going on. God absolutely created the universe, then made it void in His anger, then remodeled the universe in Genesis 1-2. This is not progressive creation as some call it. God created life as we know it 6,000 years ago, but the universe is millions (if not billions) of years old. A young earth cannot explain any of these things.

Where in the Bible does it say that God made the earth void, in his anger, between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2?

11. When did dinosaurs live? There’s no Biblical evidence to show that dinosaurs co-existed with man. The word “behemoth” in Job 40:15 (which some ignorantly allege to be a dinosaur) in the Hebrew means a hippopotamus. Some young-earthers claim that legends of fire-breathing dragons is proof of dinosaurs, but historians have never verified nor even spoken of such creatures (which are as real as Greek mythology).

Just because the Bible may not specifically name an animal, does not mean that the animal did not live around or even with humans. When something is not specifically mentioned in the Bible does not mean that it did or did not happen.

Also please remember that God created every kind of animal during the 6-days of creation (dinosaurs would be one of those animals). So humans did co-habitate with dinosaurs.

“All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles, and sea creatures can be tamed and have been tamed.” – James 3:7 CEV

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2005/11/14/dinosaur-human-cohabitation

12. A young earth rejects legitimate scientific evidence. There is plenty of fossil and carbon dating evidence to show that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. The skeletal remains themselves of thousands of dinosaurs are clear evidence that dinosaurs lived long, long ago before mankind was created. Numerous scientific methods are used to determine the age of bones and soil. A young earth laughs in the face of legitimate science. Granted, evolution is based upon bad science and fraudulent claims, which is quite the contrary to proven methods of testing the age of materials. Although scientists may not be able to determine whether the earth is hundreds-of-millions verses billions of years old, they certainly can very easily prove that the earth is much older than 6,000 years.

The idea of millions of years came from the idea of evolution. Dinosaurs did not live millions of years ago. They were created along with the rest of the animals as told in Genesis.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible

13. In Isaiah 14:12-14 Lucifer said he wanted to rise above the clouds to be equal with God. When was Lucifer below the clouds? I believe this logically explains why God destroyed the earth, that is, to punish Lucifer.

 “¹² You, the bright morning star,
    have fallen from the sky!
You brought down other nations;
    now you are brought down.
¹³ You said to yourself,
    “I’ll climb to heaven
and place my throne
    above the highest stars.
I’ll sit there with the gods
    far away in the north.
¹⁴ I’ll be above the clouds,
    just like God Most High.” – Isaiah 14:12-14 CEV

How does this verse suggest that there was an earth before this one that was destroyed? If Satan and the demons rebelled sometime after God created the earth, the part of the verse that says “ I’ll be above the clouds, just like God Most High.” would probably be referring to the clouds that Jesus made during Creation, not ones from a previous earth. Also, what’s to say that the “clouds” part of the verse is are not talking about clouds in Heaven?

14. Psalms 102:25 says “Of old” God laid the foundation of the earth. David penned this around 1,000 BC.

“Of old” is referring to several thousands of years before, not millions of years.

15. Is radioactive carbon dating that wrong? I read an article today which tried to prove an young earth, saying that newly formed lava rocks tested to be millions of years old. Of course they did, the old rock turned to liquid and back to rock. It is millions of years old. Melting ice to water doesn’t change it’s chemical composition.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible

16. Where did sin originate? Clearly sin did not originate in the Garden of Eden.

My take on this is that sin originated when Satan became proud. Then sin escalated when Satan and the demons rebelled. Of course, sin spread through humanity and creation when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden. Of course the Bible does not say this, but this is my best guess for an explanation.

17. God gave man dominion over the earth. A young earth would mean that all the dinosaurs and gigantic and ferocious mammals (like sabertooth tigers and huge mammoths) lived amongst men. People would have been dinner. It is quite obvious that these beautiful but frightening creatures did not live with mankind. Clearly they are prehistoric creatures. The pterodactyls (gigantic reptile birds) would have been a major threat to humans, and certainly the Bible would have mentioned these creatures if they existed in the Old Testament.

When God first created everything, there was no sin in the world. The dinosaurs would have eaten plants. Animals would not have eaten each other (or humans). When sin came into the world, animals changed (e.g., started eating each other).

Please remember that God created every kind of animal during the 6-days of creation (dinosaurs would be one of those animals). So humans did co-habitate with dinosaurs.

18. In Genesis 6:19 God told Noah, “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.” The Bible doesn’t exclude dinosaurs as some foolish scholars claim. If you believe in a young earth, and that dinosaurs lived amongst men, then you can only foolishly conclude that Noah left them behind as excess baggage. Clearly dinosaurs didn’t exist during Noah’s time. Noah couldn’t have fit dinosaurs on the ark if he had tried. God didn’t tell Noah to leave behind certain living flesh; but rather, commanded Noah to bring two of every sort of all flesh into the ark. This is further evidence of an old earth.

The Bible says:

“Bring into the boat with you a male and a female of every kind of animal and bird, as well as a male and a female of every reptile. I don’t want them to be destroyed.” – Genesis 6:19-20 CEV

The Bible says “Bring into the boat with you a male and a female of every kind of animal and bird, as well as a male and a female of every reptile.” Clearly there were dinosaurs on the ark. How can dinosaurs be excluded from “…every kind of animal…”?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2000/04/03/dinosaurs-on-noahs-ark

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/thinking-outside-the-box

19. 132 times throughout the Old Testament we find mention of the lion. In many cases the lion is mentioned as a symbol of strength and ferocity. Job 4:10, “The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.” Proverbs 19:12, “The king’s wrath is as the roaring of a lion.” The Bible even says in plain language that the lion is the strongest among beasts. Proverbs 30:30, “A lion which is strongest among beasts, and turneth not away for any.” Surely if tyrannosauruses had dwelt amongst men, then they would have been the strongest among beasts and mentioned instead of lions. No lion would be a match for a Velociraptor, one of the most aggressive and predatory of the dinosaurs. T-rex were meat eaters, but likely scavengers; not hunters like the Velociraptor.

It makes sense that the land dinosaurs died off sometime after the flood. My take on it is that when Proverbs 30:30 was written, land dinosaurs were already extinct.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/what-happened-to-the-dinosaurs

These are 19 proofs I have thought up off the top of my head why a young earth is not possible. I’m sure there are hundreds more. The Bible, common sense, science, archaeology, paleontology and history all testify of an old earth.

All the 19 points above are not proof that the earth is young or old. The Bible verses you mentioned either did not have anything to do with Genesis or were taken out of context.

This is not respectful to God or the Holy Scriptures. You are combining the secular philosophy of millions of years with the six-day creation week mentioned in the Holy Scriptures!

The real question is:  Do you take God at His Word (Creation account found in the Holy Scriptures), or do you combine man’s fallible, ever-changing ideas (opinions) of what happened in the unobservable, unrepeatable past with what God said in the Holy Scriptures?

Science has not proved the earth to be millions of years old. That comes from the false, satanic idea of evolution.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/millions-of-years-mortenson/millions-of-years

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2006/06/08/millions-of-years-is-the-issue/

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/au/disease-millions-of-years

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/why-christians-shouldnt-accept-millions

Findings from archaeology, paleontology and history do not find the earth to be millions of years old.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2006/07/17/seven-reasons-not-millions

I am sure that you have heard on TV about trusting yourself or believing in yourself or something of that sort. This is the satanic idea that you can make your own choices without Jesus, and you will do alright.

Below are a couple of reasons why this way of thinking is arrogant and self-defeating.

The first reason trusting in your heart is self-defeating is that we have a sin nature. We humans have the desire to do something against Jesus’ rules. “All of us have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory.” – Romans 3:23 CEV  How can someone bent on sinning ever be able to always make the right decisions?

Second reason is that we humans have a finite mind. However, God does not. “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” – Revelation 1:8 NIV 

“Nothing is hidden from God! He sees through everything, and we will have to tell him the truth.” – Hebrews 4:13 CEV

If you do not know everything, then how can you trust yourself to make correct calls on decisions?

“Respect and obey the Lord!
This is the beginning
    of knowledge.
    Only a fool rejects wisdom
    and good advice.” – Proverbs 1:7 CEV

“Don’t ever think that you
    are wise enough,
    but respect the Lord
    and stay away from evil.” – Proverbs 3:7 CEV

Remember that trusting in yourself is not only foolish, but it can hurt you and others either quickly or in the long run. It is much better to trust in Jesus Christ than your own sinful heart.

“We must keep our eyes on Jesus, who leads us and makes our faith complete. He endured the shame of being nailed to a cross, because he knew that later on he would be glad he did. Now he is seated at the right side of God’s throne! ” – Hebrews 12:2 CEV

“So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.” – Romans 10:9 CEV

Please note everything I say below is from my own experience, knowledge, and opinions.

Contrary to what a couple of people have claimed, I did not write this blog post to be “mean” or “insulting”.

You can click here to scroll down to my original post, otherwise you can read on.

Here is my response to the post I came across online that was trying to debunk what I said. Please note everything I say is in kindness. I know its long, but everything I wrote is necessary for my reply to make sense.

I found and read an online “rebuttal” of my post. Honestly it appeared the author was offended by my post. That, of course, was not my intention. However his whole response was poor.

He did nothing to disprove anything I said. He just made fun of me and the Bible and had pretty much little to no valid, technical arguments. It kind of felt like a troll / mocking post, not a honest rebuttal. Even towards the end of his post, he twisted Bible scripture while making fun of it. Not a good first impression.

In case you were wondering, I will not be linking to his website. It appears to be nothing but an anti-Christian, hate-filled blog.

Now onto my response.

He said I was arguing in a circle because I said the Bible is true because the Bible says so. However since born-again Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by Jesus Christ, they are not just “blindly” believing the Bible to be true because the Bible says so.

The Holy Spirit – who lives inside each born-again believer – confirms to the believer that the Bible is true. Anyone can read the Bible, but not everyone will have a supernatural understanding of what it says.

Also, something to keep in mind, you can have a “circular argument” be correct, even if it is technically considered a logical fallacy. So his mentioning of my giving a curricular argument does nothing to disprove the Bible.

In my original post, I said that if I were to tell you the fictional Star Trek is real, you would laugh me off, but would not be so bothered as to make websites, blog posts, etc. about how crazy I am.

So if a atheist really believed that God didn’t exist, we Christians would be considered delusional, but they would not be angry and bothered all the time about our beliefs. The fact they are, proves they know God exists, but they are suppressing that belief.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.” – Romans 1:18-19 (NASB)

Well in his response, he more or less said the example I gave made no sense, since people do not use Star Trek as a religion. A couple of problems with this.

1. He was completely missing my point (on purpose?).
2. There actually was a cult that used Star Trek as their religion. Here is the link (crazy right?) — https://www.wired.com/2007/03/star-trek-cult-/

Archived link: https://archive.is/tQxF6

Either way, what he said does not hold water.

In another area of his post, he got angry because I gave the Bible verse that talks about people are fools for saying in their heart that “God does not exist”. Please keep in mind God said that, not me. I am just agreeing with what God said. If you have a problem with that, you will need to take it up with God.

He took offense when I said atheists are lying about God not existing. I stand by what I said. I know since atheists are really suppressing their knowledge of God, they are lying. They are telling people God does not exist, while knowing in their “heart of hearts” that God really does in fact exist.

By the very fact he setup a whole blog to hate on Christians, and God in general, proves my point. If he thought Jesus was as real as Santa Clause, he never would have wasted his time bashing on an “imaginary person” and His followers “24/7”.

Everyone has the right to their own opinions (especially on the Internet). I will answer honest questions. However, I refuse to argue with people about the existence of God or with people who are not honestly asking questions.

There was one guy, on some Internet forum (no longer online; this happened almost a decade ago), that claimed my post was “the pot calling the kettle black”.

First off, he is incorrect. Secondly, he didn’t give any examples to back up his statement. While he may not like what I said, I didn’t say anything on purpose to stir up trouble, unlike some of the responses I have received. Hence, there is no “pot calling the kettle black” situation that he was referring to.

Since atheists claim there is no God, the logical conclusion is he makes himself his own god – deciding what he wants or does not want to do. Atheism pretty much believes in “no absolute truth”. I find this weird, since saying “there is no absolute truth” is an absolute truth in of itself. It’s a self-defeating argument.

“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” – Romans 1:20 (NASB)

My Original Post

1)    Atheists say there is no God. However, we know from the Bible that Jesus has shown us humans that He does indeed exist. So when an atheist says to you that there is no God, he is lying to you and maybe even to himself.

“ From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth. They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them. God’s eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That’s why those people don’t have any excuse. They know about God, but they don’t honor him or even thank him. Their thoughts are useless, and their stupid minds are in the dark.” – Romans 1:18-21 CEV

2)    Most (if not all) atheists believe in evolution. However, evolution is a failed idea that has been shown to be false day in and day out. Atheism is really built around evolution and the always-failing philosophy of humanism (how else are you going to try to justify there is no God and creation is just a myth?).

“In the beginning God
created the heavens
    and the earth.” – Genesis 1:1 CEV

3)    Have you noticed that while atheists say that there is no God, most of the time they are talking about Jesus Christ? Why are they (most of the time) not talking about buddha or allah or some other false god? In fact, I have never (except maybe once) heard an atheist talk about any other god except Jesus Christ. Why do atheists get angry with Jesus Christ (someone who they say does not exist)? Does that make any sense to you?

If I were to tell you that Star Trek was not fictional but in fact true, what would you do? You would probably laugh at me and/or just ignore me altogether. Would you get angry? Would you put up tons of blogs and websites saying how I am stupid and how I am weird?

Of course not! Star Trek is fake, you know it, I know it, and there is no need to convince others (and maybe even ourselves) that Star Trek is fictional.

If atheists really thought that Jesus Christ did not exist, they would not only NOT make Jesus a primary target, but they also would not have to try to convince people (and maybe themselves as well) that Jesus Christ does not exist.

“ From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth. They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them. God’s eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That’s why those people don’t have any excuse. They know about God, but they don’t honor him or even thank him. Their thoughts are useless, and their stupid minds are in the dark.” – Romans 1:18-21 CEV

4)    Many times, atheists use personal insults and maybe even vulgar language when talking with someone about Jesus Christ (who is a Christian). This type of attitude is a good sign that the atheist does not really have a good argument (if any) and is trying to make a point using insults and/or bad language instead of decent conversation.

“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” – Romans 1:22 KJV

——

“To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” – Psalms 14:1 KJV

Prophecy: Jeremiah 25:11-12

Date Written: Between 626-586 BC

Fulfilled: About 609 BC to 539 BC

The prophet Jeremiah said that the Jews would be under Babylonian control for 70 years. He also said that God would punish the Babylonians after the 70 years had ended.

About 609 BC, the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and also took the Jews captive. The Babylonians’ rule over the Jews stopped in 539 BC. This was due to Cyrus taking over the Babylonian empire. Cyrus let the Jews return to Jerusalem.

“¹¹ This country will be as empty as a desert, because I will make all of you the slaves of the king of Babylonia for seventy years.